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View Full Version : C20XE Head Gasket Failure or gone Porus?


Dod
03-03-2009, 08:16 PM
How do I tell which is which? The head seems to be splattered in Mayo but the water ways seem clear. Should there be any evidence in the Thermostat housing or the Rad etc?

Frisco
03-03-2009, 08:23 PM
Porous head would leave gunk in the header tank and an oily residue in the water pipes.
HG tends to lead to mayo in the engine (under the oil cap etc)




I got some pics for you, ill upload them later and PM you. Id say i can come up with an SEH too

Keithrobinson
03-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Hopefully it's just the Gasket Dod. If not then you can always have the head slieved.

Dod
03-03-2009, 08:25 PM
Thats good news all round. The thermostat housing is clean and I'll have a look in the Header tank tomorrow.

Cheers for the Pics as well. :thumbup:

denis chevette
13-03-2009, 10:23 PM
Hello. If there is water getting into the oilways in an xe or vice versa, then your head is gone porous and it will have to be repaired. If the headegasket is blown then your engine would be running excessively hot and taking water and there would be massive buildups of pressure in the coolant system. From what You are saying it is most likely the cylinder head. They can be easily repaired.

Dod
13-03-2009, 10:25 PM
Now when you say Cylinder head, do you mean the Gasket or do you reckon the head itself is warped? I checked all the Rubber hoses and the Thermostat housing and its Gunk free so its not gone porus by the looks of it.

opelvaux
13-03-2009, 11:25 PM
do a compression test and u'll know if it gasket or not

Frisco
13-03-2009, 11:56 PM
Hello. If there is water getting into the oilways in an xe or vice versa, then your head is gone porous and it will have to be repaired. If the headegasket is blown then your engine would be running excessively hot and taking water and there would be massive buildups of pressure in the coolant system. From what You are saying it is most likely the cylinder head. They can be easily repaired.

Balls!
You can have the start of HG failure and have no bad running, pressure problems or mayo in the engine. The XE can have HG trouble just like any other engine and there is no reason at all to just jump to the porous head conclusion.

A porous head has it own symptoms which are quite different to a HG.

denis chevette
16-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Balls!
You can have the start of HG failure and have no bad running, pressure problems or mayo in the engine. The XE can have HG trouble just like any other engine and there is no reason at all to just jump to the porous head conclusion.

A porous head has it own symptoms which are quite different to a HG.

Listen mate, the heads go porous in all xe engines except for the rare few that came with cosworth heads. I know coz ive repaired loads of them and ive owned plenty of them to know what im talking about ok. If an xe is mixing oil and water the head is gone porous. HG failure does not cause this problem in these engines. Im trying to give this man advice on whats wrong with his car so dont be lecturing me on headgasket failure in opels as ive seen enough of them failing and starting to fail to know the symptoms.

denis chevette
16-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Now when you say Cylinder head, do you mean the Gasket or do you reckon the head itself is warped? I checked all the Rubber hoses and the Thermostat housing and its Gunk free so its not gone porus by the looks of it.

No the head shouldnt be warped unless the engine ran ridicolously hot at some stage which You have not mentioned so I presume this hasnt happened. What happens is there is a wall in the cylinder head between an oil and a water gallery that suffers from porosity. Eventually this wall cracks and this causes the oil and water to mix. You are probably in the early stages of it. Its a problem with these engines. Now maybe I could be wrong but any redtop ive seen with these symptoms, its always been the head.

denis chevette
16-03-2009, 10:54 PM
Just drive the car away for the time being and see how it goes and let me know in a couple of weeks how it is

Frisco
16-03-2009, 11:15 PM
Stop talking s**t. I know exactly what im talking about mate.
The heads dont actually go porous they crack, porous wiuld mean that the metal allows oil to pass through it. There is no early stages of a cracked head it cracks and the oil thats at 5 bar goes through the crack into the water.

Explain how exactly the coolant which is at around 2 bar get into the oil?

Head gaskets go the XE is no different to any other opel in that respect and the heads warp the same too.

Giving s**t advice is worse than saying nothing and being a mechanic means jack s**t. If i had a euro for every bit of moronic advice ive heard from mechanics id be a rich man now.

Dod
16-03-2009, 11:27 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/Dods1/frankie_says_relax.gif

Chill out BlTCHES.

Frisco
16-03-2009, 11:31 PM
What are you? My pimp?:001_tt2:

Dod
16-03-2009, 11:35 PM
What, arent I?

Frisco
16-03-2009, 11:38 PM
I can see you in a purple siut actually

http://www.completelybonkers.co.uk/images/smi2%20pimp%20purple.jpg

Dod
16-03-2009, 11:41 PM
Foo Shizzle. :glaring:

denis chevette
17-03-2009, 09:52 PM
My god man calm down. It is the porosity in the wall between the galleries that causes it to crack mate.It was a fault in the design first day. I know all this ok. I know that heads can warp and head gaskets can go in xe engines. I am not disputing that atall. But he never said anything about the engine running excessively hot so obviously that rules out the head warping and also the headgasket because if a headgasket has failed or is even starting to fail in an opel it will take water and you will get temperature fluctuations. Any mechanic will tell you the same.
Now I know what you are saying about 2 bar water pressure and 5 bar oil pressure. And yes It will be mostly oil going into the water but it can also travel the other way. For instance when you are idling in traffic and the oil pressure goes down because the revs are low and the water temp rises then for that bit of time the water pressure can actually be higher than the oil pressure. In tdi passats when the oil cooler goes its mostly oil into the water but it also mixes the other way. Now maybe when this man drained his coolant he might not have noticed any bits of gunk in the coolant.Maybe the person who he bought the car from drained the coolant and cleaned the system to cover up a problem. It could be a split breather hose allowing condensation inside the rocker cover. It could be something as simple as that. How do you know or I know that? Ok I admit I jumped to conclusions a bit telling him that his head was cracked. Its just whenever I hear about an xe mixing oil and water Its always turned out to be the cylinder head porosity problem ok. I dont want to be having arguements here. I joined this forum to talk to likeminded opel entusiasts. I dont appreciate been told I talk like a moron. Its not like ive told this man to rip the head off his engine. I just told him to drive the car away for a few weeks and see how it goes. Whats wrong with that.

Dod
17-03-2009, 10:06 PM
Denis, cheers for the input.

The engine was supposedly drained of its oil, but while the engine was sitting in the garage floor, it fell over and what looked like oil and water throughly mixed came out (brown-cream coloured gunk)

This may be due to the engine being left outside or similar but it was pretty excessive.

denis chevette
17-03-2009, 10:23 PM
My pleasure Dod and like I said just drive the engine away for a few weeks and see how she runs and after that if you find anything wrong with it sure cant you get it fixed then. They are a great engine and are easy to put right if something goes wrong with them.

Dod
17-03-2009, 10:33 PM
Thing is, the engine has been removed from the car and the car scrapped. Best to strip it down and rebuild it me thinks.

rrv8
17-03-2009, 10:54 PM
I would stick it in a shell and fire it up , as you said it could have been stood outside for a while , which ever way its gonna need a head gasket set , and just so happens Iknow a man selling some at a knock down price
As for mayo on the filler cap it means nothing , just that you live in Donegal , got 2 V8 's here both with mayo in the filler cap , its just condensation

Dod
17-03-2009, 11:17 PM
Indeed. Looks like one of the Corsa B's is gonna be XE'd sooner than I thought.

denis chevette
18-03-2009, 12:07 PM
Thatll make a fast car

denis chevette
18-03-2009, 12:59 PM
This frisco fella is staring to annoy me. Just to clarify something i said earlier. When i said an xe wont mix the oil and water when the head gasket is gone I meant that it would not do this on its own. The engine would have to be taking water and have excessive pressures and temperature fluctuations in the water in order for the water to be getting into the oil.

Now for two of Mr frisco quotes...

1. If the head cracks thats it, there is no early or late stage:::
So what you are saying here is that you know for definite that the heads just crack and never gets any worse. How do you know? Have you ripped the head off of one that was mixing and inspected the crack and then refitted the head and checked it again a few months later to see if the crack got any worse? I bet you havent. Now I am not saying that the crack gets any worse or that the wall eventually collapses completely but anybody with a bit of cop on will know that when something cracks that most of the time it will get progressively worse especially when it is subject to pressures. Maybe the crack does get worse or it doesnt. Maybe it gets so bad over time that when the engine is not running that water can very slowly seep down into the sump. I dont know and you dont know and dont even pretend to act like you know because you dont.
Now when i said the early and late stages i was talking about the symptoms. Early being just bits of oil in the coolant system and late meaning that the water pipes being so clogged up with gunk that the engine cannot even circulate water and eventually water getting into the oil which does happen But the head would have to be cracked for a long time for this to happen and it would be a small amount in comparison to the amount of oil that goes into the water. I never said anything about the actual crack spreading and gettin worse. Like i said I dont know if this happens and you dont either

2. A headgasket can be failing for ages without any symptoms:::
If a headgasket is failing or is even just starting to fail, there is going to be symptoms. Its a simple as that. If a headgasket is even only just starting to fail It is not sealing properly somewhere along the top of the block and there will have to be symptoms. You might not notice the symptoms of the start of headgasket failure and maybe that is why you came out with this comment but I do know every symptom. You cant just say a headgasket is failing if it is not causing any symptoms. Obviously they deteriorate over time along with all the rest of the gaskets and seals in an engine but that doesnt mean they are failing. They either seal properly or they dont and if they are sealing properly they are not failing. its as simple as that. That statement does not make any sense atall. Thats the very same as saying a balljoint is starting to fail even though there is no play in it.

Have you got anything else better to be doing with your time than trying to ridicule me? Im not going to get into a war of words with you and start calling people morons, using foul language and stereotyping groups of people like you have done. I came on this forum to get and share knowledge and to talk to likeminded opel enthusiasts. The last thing I wanted was to have to be puttng up with a foulmouthed Know it all like you. Dont ever talk to me again on these forums

Frisco
18-03-2009, 01:47 PM
If your going to quote me at least do it right.

Balls!
You can have the start of HG failure and have no bad running, pressure problems or mayo in the engine.


I didn't say there would be no symptoms at all just that the ones you listed were not always there is the HG was on its way. You might get slight water loss at the start or some bubbleing when you rev but im sure you know all that already seeing as your en expert.



Hello. If there is water getting into the oilways in an xe or vice versa, then your head is gone porous and it will have to be repaired. If the headegasket is blown then your engine would be running excessively hot and taking water and there would be massive buildups of pressure in the coolant system. From what You are saying it is most likely the cylinder head. They can be easily repaired.

That is wrong.

If an xe is mixing oil and water the head is gone porous. HG failure does not cause this problem in these engines.

Thats also wrong.



The part of the head that cracks is a tube cast into it with walls about 4mm thick on the front end, it's this part that cracks. Its in the centre of the head so there is no way to look at it without cutting the head in two so its impossible to look at it and then then use the head again. I have run a knackered head through a band saw and looked at it. Have you?

It cracks and oil starts going into the coolant end of story. The coolant/hoses will slowly get worse over time because the oil continues to go through the crack as long as its left untouched.



Bad advice is worse than none at all. I dont know everything but if someone says something i know to be clearly false i will call them up on it.
I think its unfair not to for other people who might read this, believe you and start spending money when they dont have to.

mamakevf
18-03-2009, 09:02 PM
F**k it Dod, Just use some Wondarweld

Dod
18-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Na Kev, I've gotten some all weather silicone I'm gonna use, that way the channels can flex under heavy cornering without cracking or splitting.

mamakevf
18-03-2009, 09:07 PM
:baha:rolling:

denis chevette
18-03-2009, 09:11 PM
Whatever you say boy. whatever keeps you happy

Frisco
18-03-2009, 09:49 PM
Dude your the one who came back to it with another essay after your "listen mate, I know coz ive repaired loads of them"


I couldn't give a toss what you do but i will try and stop others following bad advise.

garymanc
18-03-2009, 10:59 PM
http://www.topbuzz.co.uk/info/porous_heads/porous_heads.htm

have a read off that:biggrin:

Dod
29-03-2009, 12:25 PM
A seperate car, the header tank is gunking up and the car's oil level seems to be dropping but when you open the oil cap its clear, no mayo whatsoever. The engine is to be flushed out but the oil in the water is think and brown. Porus??

Frisco
29-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Very likely yes

Its not too hard to fix, Have a read through these.

http://www.orsas.com/CarStuff/cav/sleeving.php

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/340906-thought-id-have-go-porous-cracked-head-modification.html

Dod
29-03-2009, 12:37 PM
Not good news on a Sunday really. :(

Turbo cav
25-01-2013, 12:41 AM
Holy thread revival batman :thumbup:

Ive bought a good mates original turbo cavalier knowing the head gasket was done so cracked head is only other reason for the mayo i hear everyone speaking of...

First question is it difficult to remove the head?

Second can the sleeve be done with the head still on the block and in the car

Third question anyone want to do the repair lol when i get around to working on the car :cheers2

Dod
25-01-2013, 08:25 PM
RRV8 can do it and may even be in Dublin in the not so distant future.

Turbo cav
26-01-2013, 05:42 PM
RRV8 can do it and may even be in Dublin in the not so distant future.

Sweet, ive 2 other projects that have all my attention at the minute, be nice to do something and make a decent start at the cav